Figuring It Out: The Art of Thriving

Where there is a will there is a way! We have probably all heard this catchy phrase, but lets be real, often life's challenges come along with a hard dose of reality that knocks us back in our seat. Makes us question "can I really do this?" Which leads to "Well it is easy for Dawn Gaden MA, LPC to say I bet she had it easy!" We never really know someone else's journey to surviving & thriving. However, in actuality, Dawn struggled early and often in life with a learning disability, she was diagnosed with cancer, lost her job just after buying a new house, had babies and worried how are we going to pay for all this. Yet she saw the possibilities and went to work to Figure It Out! Was it easy? No! Was it worth it? You can bet your sweet bippy! Guess what you can do it too! Life does not need to be a struggle. The realm of possibility exists that you can live a life of thriving!

Dawn Gaden  0:01 

COVID came like it was a good thing in alot of ways in the sense of just understanding what different different thingswe could do yeah yeah and that's I mean that's what I teach my clients law tois possible we got to look at possibility we keep looking at the problemsyou're gonna find problems they're out there I'm not telling you there's noproblems. I'm not gonna blow smoke Yeah, but if you look for problems you'regonna find them and if you look for possibilities you're going to find them youhave to make the decision like choices a big word for me when I talk to myclients choice choose what are you going to choose? And there's no easyinvolved like delete the word easy because people Oh it's so hard Well yeah,yeah, sometimes things are hard but again do we want to choose that hard isgoing to debilitate us are we going to say okay, so it's hard now I have tochoose what I want to do yeah, we don't have to make certain things so big asblocks to get in our way


Jason Tracey  0:53 

it was just working with a clientyesterday and he was like certainly like I don't know what the meaning of lifeis like he's really just just draw in he was making everything so like I've nowgot to take that next step it's gonna be this big giant step right and it's likebut by time we get to the end you know he's he had these big plans for Octoberhe's gonna go and do this travel abroad works work staff to kind of get thisreally cool experience. We've been talking about it for about six or sevenmonths now I've been doing this and so he really has two months before he goesand does this this thing and in so like, you're looking for an infinitesolution when you have only two months, you know, like it's just really helpingthem understand that you're you know, you think that it's the end all be alldecisions right now. It's like, long story short, it's like he saw Okay, I'mputting a lot of pressure on myself and thinking this is like a big deal. Andit's really not like make it exciting and fun, but it's not everything. Yeah,it's not everything. Yeah, definitely because then we get there like this wasit




Dawn Gaden  2:02 

like no, there's no, there's so much more


Jason Tracey  2:06 

about your journey. How do you get towhere you're at and what you're doing?


Dawn Gaden  2:12 

Like which path right yeah, alright, soI'll start at the beginning. How about if I do that? Yeah. So college well,even in high school, I struggled with anxiety and just panic like, and I wasn'ta very I don't know what you'd call it. Learning was not easy for me. Schoolwas not easy for me. I didn't retain information but I loved it learning likeloved it. And so I went to college because I wanted to be a therapist I want tohelp people always want to do I was one of those kids I guess lucky that I knewwhat I wanted because I know so many kids don't know like I don't know and Idon't blame them are so many things are like there are so many options that wedon't even realize for careers and now that we've stuck to one we can change.Anyway, I knew what I wanted to do I had to go to had to go to college to dowhat I wanted to do. And that was before like coaching became became a thingbecause when I look back I'm like oh that would have fit Not that I do anythingover like I learned a lot yeah you know, but so I went to school and did not dowell was you know academic probation by the end of the school year I was sick Ihad to leave early because I was so sick. And I had to figure it out. I'm like,what, what do I What am I going to do I sign up I did a psychology major andI'm a freshman I'm taking all these psychology classes right? Which was notnecessary, but I love it and I'm the kid in the front row like this Yeah,taking notes in the 300 you know whatever that big class you know yeah and thenyou go test me and nothing nothing I'm like this we didn't talk about this Idon't so that was not going well so I just switched majors I said what can I dogive me a major I can graduate with no I mean that's the bottom line I had tohave the degree What can I graduate with? It's going to be related that I knowI have to go on for my master's degree so I did family Community Services atMichigan State Yeah, I went to different I took a journey to get there Istarted out at Western then Oakland Community College then states I graduatedfrom state and then what happened there so there was that there probably that Istarted panic attacks and anxiety like the my first panic attack. Again, frontrow of the classroom, right? Yeah, because I'm in the front row. I'm learningthe stuff I love to learn. I'm like what's happening? I'm sweating. I'm gonnathrow up I'm gonna I'm gonna pass out Can I get up Can I walk out of the room?I have to walk past everybody. And I remember I mean like, like it wasyesterday standing in that bathroom going, what is happening? This is not okay.


Jason Tracey  4:57 

If for anybody who's had a panic attackthat you have no idea Yo, what's going on? I think you're gonna die, you'regonna die. You think you're hurting or having


Dawn Gaden  5:03 

a heart attack or what's happened? Yes.And so went to the counselor there. And I think it was on campus. I can't sayit was I don't remember. But they said, well, medication young because that'sstill I think still and even then 20 some years ago, a lot longer than 20 yearsago. That was just the protocol, right medication. And I'm like, there wassomething in me. That was like, No, I that's just not. I know, there's anotherway. Yeah, it's like a no, there's another way. And then I found meditation,and breath work. Again, like it was yesterday. I'm seeing myself laying in myloft in the dorm room. And this so this was my first year. So this is a toughfirst year of college. laying there. I think my Walkman you remember, walk me?Oh,


Jason Tracey  5:49 

yeah. I'm 42


Dawn Gaden  5:54 

and a half. So I'm having a bit. But yes,Walkmans. And I think mine was yellow, and I thought cassettes and I would putmy headphones on and just lay there because I was insomnia up all night, Icouldn't sleep, I was exhausted. And listening. I'm like, I can train my brain,I can train myself to sleep again, I can train myself to not be in this stateof panic, this fight or flight. And so that was that was the beginning. And Ithought, well, if I can do, yeah, I can do it. And I couldn't barely absorb abook. And I graduated, and went to Oakland University for my master's degree.That was phenomenal. Because the classes were more like, give me a project aswe speak. Yeah, speaking in front of people is easy. But I could do even biggertasks for me than doing a task. Yeah. And so that was my journey. I'm like,this is what I'm going to do. And the reason I chose Oakland University, andthe reason I chose the counseling program, rather than, you know, their psychology,there's social work, all those different degrees that still get you to workwith people. One is with a master's degree, I can be licensed in the state ofMichigan, and I can run my own practice. Because one day, I'm going to work formyself. That was like, again, I knew right away one day, I have to work formyself, I have to set my own rules, my own boundaries. So I knew I could dothat with the license. And Oakland had the counseling program had acertification for complimentary medicine and wellness, which was yoga,meditation, but all the alternative, they called it back then alternative, it'sgotten to this point that got me here. So I'm like, this is what helps peoplelong term lasting, sustainable change. That's what I'm about that. Let's come hereinto counseling and dump your junk and then leave for a week and come back intoit again. No, we want to create change. If I can create change, you can do it.So that's, that's how I got here.


Jason Tracey  7:49 

That's incredible. How did you learnabout meditation?


Dawn Gaden  7:55 

That's a good question. Because when Iremember myself laying in bed, listening to that cassette, like how to how Idon't even know Yeah, I have no idea.


Jason Tracey  8:05 

Do you have to go buy a cassette? Cuz Ihad to go buy a cassette. Now you can go find it on YouTube anyway.


Dawn Gaden  8:12 

But back then I had to go search it out.Yeah, you couldn't Google it. There was no Google. Yeah, there was no 89 and90, there was no Google shocker. So sorry, I wish I I will remember that oneday. Yeah, I will remember, I will have to think about that. And it'll popit'll come back to me. Right. And I will let you know. Yes. Because there washad to be somebody, right, somebody or something that said, try this. Because Ididn't know Yeah, and we don't know what we don't know. We should we don't andand that's why there was something in me at that doctor's office that said, notmedication, there was something else I know I can try. And so somehow I'llremember, it'll come back to me.


Jason Tracey  8:54 

It's so cool. And I, I love diving intothe story, because I find that the people find their passion and their purposebased off of their life experiences. And so to see what you're doing now andhow you're working with people, and then to hear your story, it really matchesup it really aligns.


Dawn Gaden  9:09 

Yeah. Yeah. It's really It's fun. It'sexciting. It's It's fun, exciting. And it's also scary, right? Because, again,something and this is the mystery I find in life. Right? What was in me, thatsaid, find the possibility dawn because other kids would drop out of school.They wouldn't have continued Yes. What is it in? That's the mystery. I havestill that I've listened to Tony Robbins. I know he sort of answered thatquestion. Other speakers wonderful personal development speakers sort of answerbut I'm like, but is that like, what it what is that? Yeah, you know, because Ibecause when I was facing a decision to either go back to Western go back onacademic probation, and I thought, What's going to be different I have to sitin class. So I think I have to take the same kind of classes How am I gonna andI took together like study how to study how to train your brain to study trainedtake tests, I did all that I did my mom was you know, you're trying to find away to succeed I had to find a way to succeed and it wasn't working and Ithought well let's try coming to college I'll live at home for a year myparents are fine with that. I'll go to community college and see if this works.And it was fabulous it worked small groups


Jason Tracey  10:31 

versus 300 people


Dawn Gaden  10:35 

you can projects you communicate youinteract I'm like this works well you only have some time at a communitycollege and you have to move on but I want to leave and so then went toMichigan State so the battle started a little bit again when I got to theschool but I I kept going and there was something in me that was saying keepgoing you need this find that you'll find find a way find a way and i don'tknow uh, you know that's I think the mystery like I can tell people you know, Iwork with clients who suffer who really suffer from trauma and and I don't knowif I can do this I'm like you can because I believe in you you can if I we canwe've I've heard we've heard we've all heard horrific stories where peoplesurvive and not even survive but thrive thrive in life. So I encourage myclients who can do this I said but you have to believe it as much as I do. Ican't make this happen for you. You have to find it within yourself to believein it as much as I believe in it for you and what is it that makes you find itor not? I don't know Yeah, I don't know


Jason Tracey  11:37 

that in itself would be incredible toknow because I feel it the same way you know you've heard a little bit of mystory last week when I was talking about it but there was always that voiceinside there's got to be a way there's got to be you know I feel like there'smore I feel like there's more keep pushing you know and so I found the mentoras I did the bang you know like Same thing for you you you push through and youfound a way to do overcome your your hurdles right there are some people likeyou said that they get that hurdle and they go back home yeah, or like women dothis right? They start a business and they fail in the first couple months andso they're like oh, this wasn't meant for me


Dawn Gaden  12:12 

right? Right. And it's like no, it's andI love one of my teachers I've heard this that say if you have this whisper inyour heart to do something that is it in itself is enough to say this is whatyou're meant to do. And then you just have to feed it and feed it and when wefail Yeah, not give power to that failure. Someone just put an acronym up forfailure. It was so cool. Like it's about learning something about the firstattempt I remembered it oh first attempt in learning fail. Is that cool? Thatis so sad this I wish I could tell you who said this. It was sad. I've neverseen that wonderful first attempt in learning Okay, so failing is excellent. Welearned how not to do something and if we can see it from that perspectiveinstead of like oh I'm a failure now because that's when we get sucked intothat just know I learned how not to do something now I'm gonna keep feedingthis this whisper that says this is what you're meant for. Yeah, because Ibelieve we all have that I think we all are meant for something great and Idon't mean like great is however you define it right? Yeah, we need everyone inthis whole world to be part of a community we need people who will pick up ourtrash we need people who will teach children we need people who will you knowbuy 1000s of acres of property and make it into a natural National Park youknow we need an app from everything right? What's your whisper because whateverit is just keep feeding it just gonna feed it


Jason Tracey  13:44 

yeah that's a I think people strugglewith that all day and I know I did because like I had this whisper of like, dothis thing or I want to start this business I wanted to go into coaching andwanting to go into speaking but then you know how do you leave that comfortzone? How do you push past like you have a job and you're doing this you knowlike how do you push past those things?


Dawn Gaden  14:09 

Yeah, it's it can it gets it can getscary. So I'll share another part of my story. Yeah, because we like I think wehave many stories right along our journey we are faced with new challenges. Andso along my journey I got my degree I also knew I wanted to have children afamily get married. And that happened is the sometimes we try really hard andit doesn't happen but like you pray it'll happen. So I did. My husband had fourboys I'm working like 10 hours a week part time because that's what worked forme he'd come home I go to work nights a week. Raise these children have a greattime, right? Second boys we have four boys. The second two are twins. So theysurprise like that's another hole right there. So have four boys bought abigger House husband lost his job, like, and we have, like, so everythingflipped, right? So husband lost his job with four children out of feed. Okay,so I find a job full time, not my idea of a good time. And the environment wasnot good for my health. It was really killing me, literally. And I rememberthere was a day I was, and again, so I'm in this new challenge, right? Like, thisisn't part of the dream. But I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Someonehas to pay the bill somewhat, and he wasn't finding a job. Someone has to feedthe kids. So I'm going to pay the balls. I'm like, Well, if I have right nowwith the job, it was like 2007 eight, you know, when things went downhill, youknow, finding a job period, right? And so I was able to find a job. So I'mlike, well, then what to do what the right thing to do. But like, inside, I waslike, This isn't like, I can't quit. My I can't. So I remember this was aturning point. Remember, a day that I was actually I would cry going to workand it was miserable. And my husband was great. He's great dad. So nothingthere. Nothing wrong with you know, working right, it was not what I wanted tobe doing. And there was he was a he's a teacher. So during that time, I waslike, whoa, I'm gonna he was finishing his teaching degree. Now that this joband he's like, well, maybe I'm supposed to go back to teach Okay, well, he hadto do student teaching, which means go teach for free. Yeah. So now we finddaycare. That's why kids in daycare, oh, my God, like, this is like ripping myheart out, right? I remember driving home or to work, praying, I prayed. God,you have to give me something different. Give me something different. I can'thandle this. You got to give me something else. So I, I got cancer. Thatwhatever you're asking for. I wasn't asking for that. And I know many peopleget really angry at God or whoever. They're when we're handed a pile of, youknow what, when we're not really asking for that pile? And I would


Jason Tracey  17:05 

totally didn't expect that. And, by theway, I got


Dawn Gaden  17:09 

sound like, Oh, really? So I, you know,discovered it went to the doctor like, yep, it's cancer. I'm like, I've hadconversations with God, and like, this was not part this is now asking for,like, I can handle this really, like, really, you're telling me I can handlethis. Because I needed to leave the job. Because I know that's what was causingit. I couldn't just go to treatment and then and do this job. It wasn't I so Ihad to have heart to heart with my husband. Like, you gotta go, I gotta go. Wegotta make it. We gotta do something different. Something different. So I quit.Well, that's a different there's time off. There's more to it, right. Butthat's a whole nother story, took time off, didn't go back. Considered goingback on like, didn't go back didn't then didn't have the opportunity to goback. So I'm like, I'm not meant to go back. I gotta find that I gotta findanother way I gotta find the other way. And so far more private practices to gowork for got healthy. Yeah, the kind of cancer I have is what the doctor says,I'm gonna kill you. Okay, but it's the kind. It's the it's non Hodgkinslymphoma, which is the kind of cancer that old people get. Yeah, like in their60s. And I'm like, Okay, what do I do hear, like, something's aging. And I gotto take care of myself, like, I got to take care of myself. If I want toprovide for my family, have a wonderful life, do what I love help others.That's the good, that was a key key. If I something's going on here, where I'mnot helping myself, yes. How am I gonna help others. And I always say, youcan't pour from an empty cup. And someone said that to me, I love them stuckwith me. And I was empty. I was like, beyond empty. So I thought, What am I?What's my lesson here? What's this journey about? I have to say, No, I have tolearn to say no, and stop giving up giving. And so I don't have to be the heroall the time. I don't have to rescue everybody all the time. So I and throughthat I was like, I'm not doing therapy anymore. I can't help anybody. Forgetit. I can't help myself. Forget it. This is too hard. But then during mytreatment during time off at home, I found myself still reading my mindfulmagazine, my yoga journal, and I'm like, okay, I can do this my way. I can dothis my way, I can still help this whispers back. I can help people I can stillgive. I could find a way that can do it well, and set my limits. And so that'swhat I did. I worked for a couple practices. And then it was like, so cancerwas like, it's weird when you think of timing, but 2011 but I've had some, youknow, ups and downs with it. But it was like four years ago, four years ago, Iopened my own practice. I was like, It's time. It's time to do my own thing.And the other private practices I've worked for they were great. Like I foundsome really wonderful people to work with. That's awesome. But it was like, whilethe kids In school I'm doing well. I have a foundation know what I want I knowwhat how I want to serve. And I don't know. Oh funny but I knew I could where Icould work more provide more for the family have really four boys an expensiveoh yeah family so how can I husband's working I'm like I can do more I can domore than 10 hours a week now, but I need to be closer to home at that time Iwas in like Beverly Hills, Southfield area, and I'm like, I'm not a commuter.


Jason Tracey  20:42 

Which we live in Brighton, which is afantastic community. I don't hate leaving. To go to Southfield.


Dawn Gaden  20:51 

Am I doing my driving over there when Ican be here in my own community and that's when I first said okay no can officeI want I know my budget and I know where I want to work and then I found theplace right up the hill like five blocks four blocks out of


Jason Tracey  21:08 

town it's so key when you can get avision for what you want you just it's so important and then you find it


Dawn Gaden  21:13 

you find that that mindset when you putthat vision This is what I'm going to do this is what I want and I found it wasbeautiful beautiful office old I love the old style and then had to move fromthere and then went and then had to do the same thing Okay, I need a new space.


Jason Tracey  21:28 

Natalie by any chance Can we turn thatlight off? Yeah, okay, cool. It's just like it's so much better for thelighting. Oh yeah. No, thank you.


Dawn Gaden  21:40 

It's I had to leave that office and thenhad to set up another vision a new budget What do I want Where's Where do Iwant to be and then found another office in Brighton downtown like this because10 minutes from my house. I'm not in town. We live out but you know, in thewoods, but driving like if the kids if there was an emergency if I had to goget my hair. Yeah, it's a beautiful place to work. take breaks, go to thecoffee shop for lunch, sit by millpond like and take care of me. Fill me up.Yeah. Second take care of my clients


Jason Tracey  22:11 

during the nature you hear the sound?hearing the sound of the water. All that stuff I want to know.


Dawn Gaden  22:16 

Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.


Jason Tracey  22:19 

So beautiful. So Ah, so awesome. So youfind your space you find what you're doing? And then you're incorporating thestuff that helped you with the yoga and the more like, what do they call it themindfulness mindfulness, but like holistic Yeah, yeah, it was alternative.


Dawn Gaden  22:40 



Jason Tracey  22:41 

alternative which is really the mainhealth right?


Dawn Gaden  22:44 

It is the main health it's an alternativeat all. So main health what we feed our body. Yeah, what does our body need? Ihad a doctor told me once. Not a doctor, but a client doctor. My body is notdeprived of Lexapro. And I was like, I love that. Thank you.


Jason Tracey  23:04 

I love that dude.


Dawn Gaden  23:05 

What is that? What and that noteveryone's depression is the same. I'm not a doctor. So I can't tell youeverything that's going on the brain. And yes, there are some similarities inthe brain. But this person's depression does show up sometimes different thanthis person, then this person. What do you need in your life to be happy? Whatdo we start need to start doing to fill you up? You know, yeah, that's what'smissing, had find what's missing. And some things. We? I think, again, I'vecome from a holistic background yoga, mindfulness. That's where I absorbed mystudy. There are so much we can do for our health. That we don't even realizeYeah, that can change. I didn't need I didn't need medication for anxiety forpanic attacks for insomnia. I'm not special. I worked hard at it. It was noteasy. Yeah. But I was willing to do it. That's important. We have to be willingto do what's really important and really and not make the hard work a badthing. Just work it's just


Jason Tracey  24:07 

life with somebody that's like that'sreally whoo down like that and stuff doesn't work.


Dawn Gaden  24:13 

Yeah, I'd say yes. And science has provenit and that's what's so cool. So when was it like a few years ago maybe it'sbeen a few years already because it's we already had 18 months of, of TwilightZone time. That's what I call it. I was going into the bookstores and beingmindful magazines out front and center. I'm like, really amazing. Are we okaynow with this is this


Jason Tracey  24:35 

is this acceptable?


Dawn Gaden  24:40 

Hallelujah, because that's what I waslearning in 1989 1991 in college Alternately, you know, complimentary medicineand wellness. That's my certification. Yes. And it's I'm complimentary. It ishealth. And it's now there's more research. Now there's more study that says,you know, pruning the I don't know if you've heard of pruning where if we stopfeeding these old pathways, neural pathways, they they actually die away. Yeah.So I like to tell my clients, okay, you have this pathway, neural pathway wiredhere. First, let's say, anxiety. Every morning you wake up, you're like,anxious, I'm anxious, I'm anxious and what's gonna cause me to be what's goingto trigger my anxiety today? Okay, well, guess what? We're feeding this pathwayin the brain? What if, what if you wake up in the morning and go, I'm gonna havea great day. I'm gonna enjoy the sun. I'm gonna sit for five minutes in thesun, because it feels so good. I'm gonna take a walk. Because I know that makesme smile. I'm going to call a friend, because I know she makes me laugh. Andguess what? Then we start to wire new neural pathways over here. Yeah, forthis, and these things die away. And so then we're building a new new OS in thesense of Yes, it really is. We're building a new OS. And we have to be okay.Looks like. And that's a process. But I don't know myself without anxiety. Iknow. But would you like to? Would you like to, would you like to, let's get toknow who you are without anxiety, because you don't need this? Yeah. And soit's about building a new foundation, a new foundation, it doesn't mean you'llnever have anxiety. It doesn't mean you'll never be depressed. But whensomething in life happens out here, because you've developed this in here to bestrong, and loving. You build this foundation and come back to this, you comeback to this, this thing happens and you're like, you lose it, whatever thatlooks like. But we go, Okay, I know where to come back to. I know where to gainmy footing. And that's what we're doing. We're just building a bigger, betterfoundation.


Jason Tracey  26:40 

Yeah. How would you believe work whethereven people you encounter on a daily basis? How many people do you think don'tknow what their core values are? They don't know what makes them happy?


Dawn Gaden  26:55 

Yeah, a lot. I mean, I'll ask you thequestion, what makes you happy? What do you want? I've never been asked


Jason Tracey  27:02 

about loved ones. Ever. No one's everasked him that, right?


Dawn Gaden  27:05 

No one's ever asked them. Wow, what doyou want? a homework assignment I'll give I want and I want you to fill a page.I want, right I want and then fill blank, I want keep going, just keep going.And you feel it. You feel what it would feel like if you could have what youwant. You know, and then I take them a step further. I am. I am so powerful. Iam are so powerful. I am. Because often so we start with Taiwan, because wehaven't really gone there at all right? So I want want to be happy. I mean, andthat's what that's the thing I think people need to understand. Yes, we can saya lot of million dollars. Sure people make a million dollars, go for it, dowhat works serve big, be rewarded big. And there's everything in between. Iwant to be happy. I want a roof over my head. I want food on my table.Everything. I just I want I want whatever, explore it. Get creative.


Jason Tracey  28:04 

I want an office downtown Brighton, whydon't you know,


Dawn Gaden  28:08 

simple little simple things like this isthe office I have in mind. You can't find an office for that price. I did. Idid. You know, so we just do we stay in that set that mindset, we have to staythere and fill it and feed it and feed it. And we can get there. You know, andI am I have that was my I am. And so here's how I say my I am statements. I amso happy and grateful now that I have an office in downtown Brighton. And itfits me beautifully. And it's you have a wonderful landlord and the peoplearound me are excited to be at work and they love what they do. That's I wantto be surrounded by those people, not people who come in and are grumpy, right?So I had to write that out. And I see it because it's to see it. Feel that. Andthat's step two was where we all so this is jumping a little but superheropose. You heard of that? Yeah, so superhero pose. And apparently the study saysthree minutes in a mirror is what will change your physiology and change yourbrain, right? So three minutes, superhero pose, staying in the mirror, I loveand accept myself. I'm worthy, whatever we say, you know, and sometimes I'llgive clients a track to listen to, you know, because they're afraid to recordthemselves eventually, when you record your own voice saying it, you know,record something, stand there. But it feel it. Because, again, I say it I'mhaving I love and accept myself. I love and accept myself. It's not working,john, it's not working. Okay, what do you what do you Okay, you're saying thisout loud. What are you saying in here? Well, it's not true. I don't believethat. Yeah. All right, we got to make that shift. Because this inner voicethat's gonna win every time. So you have to decide, I'm willing to believethat. I'm willing to feel what it feels like to love and accept myself. Whatmight that feel like? That's what you have to do to make the shift. It's morethan just the word It's the whole, which is why I love my intensity practicethat I teach, because it's your thoughts, your words and your actions together,that create the change that you want. It's not just we're not just one, we'renot just physical beings. We're not just emotional beings. We're relevant,mental, physical, emotional, spiritual. Yeah. And we've got to connect with allthose at one level or another, to make real lasting change, to be who we reallywant to be.


Jason Tracey  30:26 

I work with my clients and the salesaspect we do we do a lot of this similar work because like, I've worked withpeople that have no sales people that have had to make sales calls. And if theyin their mind, they don't believe that sales calls work or they believe theyhave certain beliefs and thoughts because they have a history and experiencewith calls or maybe even they remember that like me when I got into sales. Iremember my grandma taking great pleasure in telling a telemarketer off andlike you know, like it just really giving them giving them the business andthen hanging up on them and she felt good about that. And I remember Oh my god,what if I'm calling my grandma you know what I'm calling somebody like anxietyon the phone. So it's like really centering it and believing it in so I'vewatched this guy this day, make phone calls and he's like, just low bodylanguage he was like going through the motions he was making the calls, but inhis mind, you could see he didn't believe in it, you got to make that shift,you got to you got to feel like you're really serving people you gotta yougotta like and really understand what it is you're doing. We do a lot of Imstatements because people feel I'll get them to say who they are. At the coreis a person and and say, okay, the phones in your hand, now you're callingsomeone about business, or you're calling someone because you're selling withWho are you in who they are here and who they are, here are two completelydifferent things. And what I do is match up who they are with who they are, nomatter what. So like, as opposed to when you pick up the phone or you're aboutto bring up your price for your services. All of a sudden, now you feel like aused car salesman. Now you feel like you're unethical. You have low integrity,but that's not true. Right? Use that over here. You're a high integrity person.You care about people, you're a father, you're a mother, you're you know,husband or wife, you're you're caring and loving, and empathetic. And these areall the things that you said you you are, why would it be any different whenyou're picking up the phone to call somebody? You've got to be this over hereto


Dawn Gaden  32:24 

bring those characteristics. Because Ithink that has a little bit to do with what do we call it when you know, you gothrough that that belief that salespeople are right, yeah, salespeople are thisway they lie. They cheat they they're scammy they're whatever. No, they're fasttalkers. Right. And some are, yeah, oh yeah. Samira. Yep. Like in any field.You're gonna find trustworthy people you're gonna find untrustworthy people andit's for some reason we've taken on this this identity of what that looks likeand it's like nope let's break the box and decide who I want to be in thisplace yeah and who and know that there's and find people you know like you canteach them how to do sales in a very authentic trustworthy real passionateserving weigh yes you know and look for those people who do the same becausethey're out there they're out there they're out there and so then like changingthe story Yeah, and you know change what we're gonna see what we want to see


Jason Tracey  33:30 

in for me I went on that journey andthere's a stigma out there because it does exist you're right there areunethical sales people there. My first sales job they were like, have you everwatched the movie the boiler room? And I'm like no, and they're like great, gowatch it. That's what we do. That's your sales training. And it's just like areally unethical movie. The movie is great. itself I really liked the movie butthe thing that's what I'm doing that gave me anxiety I had nightmares I didn'twant to do that. I struggle that I struggled last so bad that I got my my truckrepossessed I was having getting eviction notices I was not sleeping well atnight. I was going through all these motions I had to really figure out thatthe reason why I got into sales and in general is because I was working at thisnursing home and I felt like I was persuasive at people but I really just likeserving people I people would I made these friendships or you know, peoplewould give me things or whatever and that's why I got into sales. I felt like Imust be pretty persuasive. But I changed my personality because that's whatthey told me I had to do to be in sales I had to do this. And it didn't feelnatural to me right it's why I struggled at it that I realized what if I justwas me, right? What if I What if I literally just listened to people ask themquestions, like understood what it is that they're about. Oh my god, night andday difference,


Dawn Gaden  34:47 

right? Right. Isn't that amazing? Yeah,just don't lose yourself.


Jason Tracey  34:51 

Don't lose right.


Dawn Gaden  34:52 

Don't lose yourself.


Jason Tracey  34:54 

That's the biggest thing. Yeah.


Dawn Gaden  34:55 

Like you talked about values. You know, Italked with clients or values like Find out what those are, how are youbuilding yourself? Because we bring on all stuff from what we've been taught,right? So a lot of times, working with clients, you know, we're really justshedding layers of what we thought was true based on society, or how we wereraised or, you know, and again, that that stigma on therapy about you know,let's blame it on the parents. So we don't blame our parents. We learned fromthem. Yeah, we were put in the family we were put in to grow and learn. And ifwe can see from that perspective, then Okay, this is what I learned from mom ordad. How's that work for me? Work? Okay, so I'm about that piece go. So I haveto decide like, and that's so upbringing, society, experiences and life. Howdoes that work for me? Doesn't work. I like it. Okay, I


Jason Tracey  35:49 

can let that go. Yeah, I can be who Iwant to be. Yeah. Or there's stuff that you like, there's stuff that works.


Dawn Gaden  35:55 

And there's stuff that works. There'sreally great stuff that works. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. And we have to holdon to those pieces. And that's where it comes to, like, blame the parents. No,we're not. We're exploring our experiences, because there's a lot of things wewere taught that are really great. Yeah. Really great. Yeah, we can hold on tothose. And hold on to


Jason Tracey  36:14 

those. I have a mentor that I thatchanged my life. But I also learned some things not to do. Right, you know,like, yeah, it's just one of those things, like you can learn from people, butyou can also learn what not to do, right? You don't like and what you would dodifferently?


Dawn Gaden  36:30 

Yes. And that's what failure is about islearning what you don't want. What you don't like, That's all it is. Yeah.first attempt first, first attempt in learning learn, I got her quote, herthing, right. And I can't remember who it was. But


Jason Tracey  36:42 

that sounds like that, but didn't make itup. My biggest learning lessons have come from my failures.


Dawn Gaden  36:47 

Right? And if we can see it that way. Andthat's what I do. Like when I think about people I've studied, and I look at,like successful people and like models or mentors, and I'm like, Okay, let'stake a look at them. They've gone through bankruptcy. They've done businessesthat have failed, they've, you know, they've made mistakes. Yeah. They justdidn't stop. Yes. That's the key. Yeah, they just, it's not that they fail.It's just saying stop. They kept going and learning. You know, what is the Isit the Thomas Edison quote, you know, when someone said, How many light bulbs,blah, blah, blah, right? And he's like, I've learned 10,000 ways not to do andthere's only one way to do it, I'm gonna figure it out. But I've alreadylearned which ways not to do it. And guess what? figured it out. Thank youknow, so grateful, aren't we? You stuck


Jason Tracey  37:33 

with it was cool, because he goes back towhat you're talking about, there's that thing in you, there's that day, therewas a thing of Thomas Edison, because there's a lot of other people that wouldhave just gave up and quit. Yeah. You think about like when, when the Wrightbrothers created flight, right? I've read a lot, a lot of stories about this.There was there were so many other competing forces that had more money, moreresources, more talent, you had engineers, and then you're the Wright brotherson this farm somewhere, like figuring it out in actually doing it. And thepeople that were actually had more of resources, gave up gave up. Like, as soonas the Wright brothers flew their plane, they're like, Oh, they beat us to it,right? Because it wasn't their passion. It wasn't they were just doing it forthe money and the accolades. Now, if they would have just picked it up, maybethey could have improved on it. Right? There's a lot of times that somebodyinvented something, but nobody knows who they are, because somebody else tookit and ran with it to another level.


Dawn Gaden  38:26 

Yes. And even that, like collaborating,right, that comes back to like, community and collaboration for the greatergood. Yeah. Like, imagine if it was their passion, if it was their passion,that's probably okay. That they gave up, they stop. But if they truly, what wastheir passion they want, maybe could have followed it? Yeah. Think about, like,you know, bring more brains together, more minds together, more passiontogether. What it could have been differently, right? And so never giving up onyour passion, you know, and, and sometimes it's fuzzy, and that's why you, youknow, life is life. Isn't my passion. You know, am I quitting too soon?Sometimes we don't know. But that's where meditation comes in. That's forcalming this thing down because it can be very, but someone's have said this,or what if I do this or social media says this or does this and it's like, turnthat off, and go in and when you go in, wow, that little inner spiritual voicethat that inner knowing, comes up and if you're listening, you'll hear your,your, your hearing, okay? And sometimes it's like, clear as day and sometimesit's like, I'm gonna keep listening. You're really saying, you know, but it'sbeing willing to take care of you and not worry so much about what everybodyelse thinks.


Jason Tracey  39:46 

So what has been the difference in yourpractice from therapy to coaching


Dawn Gaden  39:51 

gasps so fun. Um, see when I went so Idid coaching, Coach training and like to that Lesson 10 because I was havingclients tell me you're not a therapist or a coach. That's the What's that? Whatdo you mean a coach? Yeah, well, you make me work and you make me reach mygoals. You don't let me get away with stuff. I don't just come and dump on you.And you go, Okay, see you next week. No, that's not how I, that's not my ideaof therapy. So I said, Well, I better look into this coating thing. And so Idid. And I'm like, well, that's what I'm doing. Okay, so let's, I can matchthem. Yeah. So that's kind of what I do. Okay. The difference is with it, youknow, therapy. There's insurances involved, you know, there's certain rules Ihave to follow. There's legal, ethical, well, ethics go across everything I do.Yeah, there's no question there. Yeah, but legally, you know, with insurance orcertain things I have to do and document and blah, blah, all that fun stuff.Which, again, I like to play by our rules. And so COVID came, right. So I'vebeen kind of doing coaching, but not so much, right? More therapy, with workingwith insurances helping people in that way. But my technique is coaching,right? tools change, understand your values, how, look at possibility, takingfirst steps, you know, little steps every day. Yeah. But then calling them outon it, and then calling them out on it checking in like, did you do what yousaid you were gonna do? And if you didn't, why, and is important or not? Andnot because I asked you, but because you have to decide it is for I'll give aquick example. I have clients journal, like that's where we start. got going onin here. Yeah. After No. And I've never been I'm not one that was a you knowwhat growing up, it was like, oh, girls had diaries. Yeah, I was not one tohave a diary. I was not. But through an when I started there, therapy,counseling and coaching, I would recommend journaling. Because research said itwas effective. And I will be honest with my clients, I have no I have not donethis. I don't journal. But there but research says it's good for you. So Ithink you should give it a try. Yeah, it was kind of a thing. And then I triedit. Because I needed it. In my world with four boys and being married andwanting to have a wonderful, happy marriage. That's not an easy task. It takeseffort. And I remember finding myself journaling one day, I'm like, I gotta dothis. This apparently this is supposed to be helpful. And I typically you'vebeen saying it, I better do it. Because I typically give my clients work thatI've done. Yeah, typically, I do meditation breathwork. Here, I've done this.I've tried it. But if not, then I'm like, well, it's been researched. Justbecause I haven't done it doesn't mean I won't help you. Yeah. So journaled anddiscovered the amazing process of journaling, to date. And there's so manydifferent ways to journal, different ways dumping. I call it dumping the junk.Yeah, you just dump and the first time I did it, I was mad at my husband tellsMatt, and again, at the beginning of any relationship, you're doing things thatyou were taught, like by your parents, some things are good, some things areright. So I've learned my things that don't work very well in a relationship.And I remember I was mad at him, and I am like, Okay, this is, I don't know ifthis is worth discussing. I don't know if this is worth the fight. So let'swrite. I remember writing, writing and writing and writing. And I'm like, like,it took about I was crying. I was a mass. And afterwards, I was like, Okay,this isn't his problems. My problem. Like I discovered, like, this isn't worththe fight. This isn't. I said, Okay, what did I really write? I looked back, Icouldn't even read it. I couldn't even read it. It was a mess. I laughed. I waslike, I don't even know. But I know, it was clear. There was no pressing issue.There was nothing I needed to discuss with them. There was no like, not evenlike we didn't get to a point where I had to apologize yet. like It Wasn't itwas just me in here going, something's about to explode. And I and that's kindof like the turning point where I said, this works. Yeah, you got it. We got toget out and we don't know where to close, right when it's in our head where wecan't see it. So I I'll have clients, I always recommend writing. And like Ihad said, there's different ways like dumping the junk. I want I am like,there's all different ways to write. And I had a client that would come to meand I'm not writing at dawn. I'm not right, okay. We'll keep working. Andshe'll come in and be productive and work. So I'm like, I'm not gonna push ittoo hard. You're doing other things. I remember she came in one day, it waslike, two years and about two years and she comes in she's looking at me andkind of smiling. I'm like what I wrote. Because why didn't you make me writesooner?


This really works. I've been writing likecrazy. I'm like, I know. I said, I can't make you do it more than you want todo it for yourself. There's no possible way here to hold your hand. I'm here tosupport you and to cheer you on. But you have to you have to do it tilleverything's in the right timing. I'm like, I love those stories when clientswill share with me because then I'm like acid, we got to own our staff and Anddo the work. Yeah. And when they do the work, it's amazing. And so so that's sothat was like a side note from the counseling and coaching piece. But yeah, sousing those tools. And so now as I've progressed, so COVID came right COVIDhere, and I'm working in my home, doing virtual sessions with clients, andtaking every client that calls because everyone's struggling, right. And thenagain, I was tapped out, right, doing more for clients, and it was for myself,and I was tired. And I'm like, I gotta refill my cup, and I'm like, oh, pause,I'm not pouring, I'm pouring from an empty cup again. So I know how to catchmyself now, right? Because that's what cancer taught me like, Dawn, take careof yourself. Okay, so to pause on the way to massive restructure. therapy'sgood. But I can help more people if I do groups. So I'm like, well, I've neverwanted to do groups. Now really fan groups? How can I do this? How can I helpmore people and serve more people with less time? It's okay, I started ingroups. But here's the catch with therapy, right? You have to documenteverything. Well, if I have 20 people in a group, I have to do 20 notes and 20buildings. And so I said, coaching is going to be my, I'm going to buildcoaching, I have to use coaching. So I can help serve more people and not drainmyself? Because I don't do extra work is not necessary, right? Yeah. And sothen I started shifting into smaller groups, so less, like, less costly. Andthen I have bigger coaching groups that are more you get more, you know, costmore, right? So there's different levels. But that's where I'm transitioningto. So it's doing more groups, because Mr. Pratt, I saw private clients, but Ican minimize, so I don't drain myself. Yeah, the clients. And also before, aclient would call. So this is how I do things a little differently withdifferent than therapy. client will call and I'd schedule them, and then the 90minute, ask them what their issue was. Can I really help them? Like, I didn'teven ask them? They're just calling they found me on Psychology Today or mywebsite? And but do I really know if I'm the one to help them? Yeah. So nowlearning by working with a coach to help me do this really well, right? Becausenot everyone's meant for everybody, oh, gonna find the clients who will reallywant to work with me and do the work. Yeah. And they want to show up. In fact,you


Jason Tracey  47:27 

you drain your cup faster, when you workwith people that you're not going to work with. I


Dawn Gaden  47:32 

know, figure that out, figure that out. Idid, I figured that out. But he's not worth it. It's not worth it, no matterhow much it's not, we have to be healthy and happy. And I'm really, reallymaking an impact, I want to make an


Jason Tracey  47:44 

impact. When I first heard my business, Iwas working with a bunch of clients that I thought, Man, I must suck like,people are not making any progress. And I feel like I'm just taking theirmoney. And it just really ended up being they wanted it right. They didn'treally want it. They didn't want it to go and take the action. And when I gotthat first client that went and took the action, and we've had one session, hewent out and changed his world and paid and was able to pay for coaching forthe next few months. Like this is the guy this one. This is what I'm lookingfor this.


Dawn Gaden  48:09 

These are the people I want to work with.Yes. And so now I have a system where I mean, you know, I have conversationalclients first, you know, so first of all, they know that it's not just therapy,here's what I offer, and then what level you want to work with me. You know,and there are some private options open. And then there's cgroups, which ismore because I'm full right now with individual clients. So there's options,but now I know like let's talk, let's just spend 30 minutes and I'm I'm gonnaask you questions, you asked me questions. And do we align? Do you want to dothe work Am I asked you to do because I expect great things from people? And ifnot, it's okay. You know, and that was it's interesting, because that processway back, you know, when starting out in therapy, yeah. Or people would callme, you know, and I was in practices. So they were, they would schedule peoplefor you. But still, sometimes people would want to talk to me, you don't wantto talk to the therapist first, which is Hallelujah, talk to your therapistbefore you schedule your first appointment. Because that's very important. Thisis your very important this you're going to be you're supposed to bevulnerable. And yeah, and you have to be willing to be vulnerable. So have aconversation with them first. But I remember being there going, like, I need tosell my throat like I'm good, right? Because I was new. Yeah. And I had to likeconvince people come work with me. And then you'll learn not to be thatsalesperson. Right? That you know, here's what I have to offer. Yeah, andhere's who I am. And if that sounds good to you, let's go let's go let's do it.Right. So that transition to of like, I don't need to force people to want towork with me. Yeah, I'm here I'm happy to


Jason Tracey  49:39 

like people that want to be married orthey want a significant other and they go try to force it. And people run awayfrom them.


Dawn Gaden  49:48 

Yeah, yeah. So that so and it's all ajourney, you know, it's all a journey to be able to look back at me when I wasat the beginning and be okay with like, and just laugh at that and that go on.I was horrible, but just, that's just the way it was I learned you know, andknowing that we have to learn as we go.


Jason Tracey  50:06 

I think the joy in life, we have badtimes, but like, the whole our whole purpose is to learn, right? You know andgrow. And it doesn't have to be like night and day changes though, you know,like just little changes.


Dawn Gaden  50:17 

Yep, small and I don't know who saidthis. I like to say the names when I remember quotes, but I don't remember butit was 1% improvement one day at a time. 1% improvement one day at a time. Likeone and then the snowball. You know, I talked with the client the other day,and I was given our tools just like how do I change them.


Glen Walters

Bavarian Inn Lodge & Conference Center | Growth Driven Leader

Angelina R

Dr Wax Orthodontics

You brought the energy and the TEAM loved it! You had great points and did a wonderful job incorporating our real life work scenarios and gave us examples and a different approach/outlook. We will definitely benefit from the information that you gave us.

Sarah Williams

Dr Wax Orthodontics

Good Morning Jason! Your presentation was spot on! The energy you brought to the group was amazing! You were the perfect fit to our retreat. Bringing in specific details such as Retainer Insurance was super helpful in connecting with the team. Thank you!

MIsty White

Owner/Operator-Advanced Care Chiropractic

Jason, thank you so much for coming out to our all day team retreat and working with our crew! We loved the exercise we did and diving into our mindsets around sales. Thanks for helping us grow personally and professionally🙌🏼. We can’t wait to work with you again:)

Sparkle Lindsay

Founder-Sparkle LLC

Jason is a wonderful coach and he knows how to bring out the lion in you!! He keeps things positive and he helps you find what makes you amazing, just by his abilities to deep listen and meet your where your at on a daily basis. Thank you Jason for believing in me, and standing by me in this journey of enlightenment.

Wally Bressler

Co-Founder-Phone Sales Secrets

You folks already know Jason Tracey, so what I'm going to say is not a surprise: He is a class act and one of the most servant-minded professionals I've ever met in my 30 years in the business world. More importantly, he's able to break down some of the fairly complex psychological and emotional strategies behind success so that his clients can understand the shifts they need to make in themselves and their approach to growing their business easily and effectively. My favorite thing is that Jason helps people who are square pegs fit into square holes. He leverages what they already love to do and then guides them to making it an entrepreneurial success. I am honored to have met you Jason and hope we can find some ways to do some great things together. Thank you again for joining me on my podcast yesterday. "OWN THE PHONE"

John Gouin


3 years ago, you couldn't have convinced me that I had anything to learn about running a small business. I had survived and flourished for over 16 years. I was regularly hitting revenue targets, and had successfully weathered the 2008 financial crisis. However, things change, and I gradually got complacent. The phone didn't ring as much; customers were dropping off; large and lucrative projects were no longer the norm, and my core business was changing. I wasn't being proactive, and my confidence was eroding. Fast forward to 2019, and the situation was critical. I lost my largest customer, and the pressure and fear was now interfering with my ability to be a dedicated father and husband. I met Jason Tracey at a local networking group, and after hearing my story, he had some hard words for me. After flailing about for a few more desperate months, I signed on at Roar Consulting with Jason as my coach. This process is challenging, and it will be up to you to make substantive change, but you won't be alone. I'm incredibly grateful for Jason's candor, deep knowledge, friendship, and most of all, his genuine excitement when doors start opening. If you're a struggling small business person, listen carefully. You'll learn a lot about authenticity, accountability, and that your business is what YOU make it; YOU get to define it. Go here. Hire Jason. Stop being a victim. EAT FACES.

Brian Bundesen

Ann Arbor Real Estate Investors Club

I had the great fortune to cross paths with Jason a couple years ago, and have been inspired by his knowledge, passion and spirit ever since. His motivational talks have been a catalyst for me to both pursue coaching certifications as well as embrace the value of being Coached. At our 1:1 sessions I have learned a TON, and gained new and valuable perspectives on my personal career path, that I really doubt I would have otherwise learned about. Jason has also generously given his time to speak at events I have hosted. I wholeheartedly recommend Jason, Roar, and his whole approach. You will be glad when you engage his services

Nick Giese

Mindful Media

Jason Tracey is incredible at what he does. To me, he's an inspiration, motivation, mentor, and great friend. Ever since I approached him it's been nothing but positivity, encouragement, and brutal honesty. My life has been dramatically changed by him and I can't be thankful enough. I quit my 9-5 job to pursue my own business full time and haven't looked back. Not only did he help me get the courage to make this "risky" step—he taught me how to approach people and produce results. My perspective on "selling" is completely different and has become effortless thanks to Jason. Now I can go forth and eat faces!

Kris Hingst

Krommatic Marketing

Jason has been instrumental in propelling my consulting business forward. Having a coach like him as a soundboard and confidant has given me the focus and direction on achieving my business goals. His motivation, sales tactics, and listening skills are top notch. Any entrepreneur/small business that needs accountability or direction to grow their business, should reach out to Jason immediately!

Natalie Miller

Grit & Lavendar Financial Planning

Jason is an amazing coach & partner to have on your team. He really takes the time to listen to your challenges, opportunities, & help your sort out all of the noise to you can propel yourself forward. He has a wealth of knowledge & experience, but doesn’t overwhelm you with it. He gives you actionable steps each week to help you reach your goals and help hold you accountable to what you say you will do. If for some reason you miss on what you said you will do, he doesn’t brow beat you, he looks for the reason there was a breakdown, reviews what that just cost you and helps you prevent that same action from reoccurring. He is an asset to any entrepreneur &/or sales team! I highly recommend giving him a call.







Desi Mayner

Mayner Leadership

Desi Mayner with Mayner Leadership closes the biggest deal for his new business.

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